Hardtops are good right?

"MountainCommand" (MountainCommand)
09/25/2013 at 21:23 • Filed to: mr2

And whats the deal with the last gen MR2? Was this car a flop, or is potentially the undiscovered miata competitor that everyone is forgetting about? I saw one the other day and it got me thinking...

Did this car fall victim to the same reasons why the prelude died off?

DISCUSSION (50)

6cyl > MountainCommand
09/25/2013 at 21:25

I want a last gen MR2 soooo badly

Milky > MountainCommand
09/25/2013 at 21:27

Same thing with the Celica .... Toyota quit giving us turbo's.

Damn Toyota.

MountainCommand > 6cyl
09/25/2013 at 21:29

as do i. As ugly as it is, its features are just so appealing. And its nice and small.

Gamecat235 > MountainCommand
09/25/2013 at 21:30

I work with a guy who tracks and dd's his. It's an awesome car. I think it wasn't as attractive as the outgoing model, and didn't have a turbo, so it was more ignored. But it is still a great little car.

Somethingwittyer likes noisy > MountainCommand
09/25/2013 at 21:31

I guess people looked at it as the poor mans Boxster, and that was when the Boxster was pretty much labled as the poor mans Porsche. Also, being slower and not as good looking (thought is still looks nice and peppy) as your predecessor doesn't help matters, even if it is cheaper. Just ask Mazda.

PRBot II > MountainCommand
09/25/2013 at 21:31

I remember making a post several months back, "Is the answer always Miata?" with a pic of a beautiful MR2 Spyder.

The majority of responses concurred that the MR2 is not as abundant, more expensive, etc.

I agree though, it is underrated. I kinda want one... turbo'd.

phenotyp > MountainCommand
09/25/2013 at 21:32

The hardtops are damn near impossible to find anymore. Toyota brought fewer than 25,000 MR2s over here, and very few hardtops (I'm not sure wether they actually brought the hardtops here at all, or if you had to order them from japan. Personally, I love mine. Been my DD for 8 years and three weeks. After I braced it up, it felt like it could handle about twice the hp (though I haven't fucked with the power or suspension. NA and NB Miatas scare me, the corner of the a pillar feels like it's aimed right at my forehead, and I'm like hips-up out of the car. The 2's wheelbase is 7 inches longer, and the belt line higher. So much more comfortable.

6cyl > MountainCommand
09/25/2013 at 21:34

I think it would be fun stock (or nearly) but everyone seems to want one turbo'd for a little more power. If I had the choice I'd stay N/A and swap in a Honda K20. That would be a riot. 200hp and enough torque to get out of the way. Perfect.

MountainCommand > PRBot II
09/25/2013 at 21:34

Im just curious if its as great of a drivers car as is the miata. Small, light, rwd, easy to work on. That formula is simply fantastic.

MountainCommand > Gamecat235
09/25/2013 at 21:35

Is turbo really the biggest deal breaker in the world? Miata's never did that, so i dont think the lack of a turbo is to blame.

Do you know how his reliability has been? Curious if they are honda-like in that regard.

MountainCommand > phenotyp
09/25/2013 at 21:41

Thats good to hear they are reliable. And Im shocked to hear there are only 25,000 in the US. that seems oddly low. And its unfortunate since the ones i see are usually in pretty bad shape.

I have the opposite feeling about the miatas. I got to sit in my buddies miata a bunch of times and i never felt cramped, or that the A pillar was taking aim at my head. Nor any of the hip swag. Considering im 6'2'' and hes 6'5'' a mid 90's miata works surprisingly well.

phenotyp > MountainCommand
09/25/2013 at 21:41

It's at least as good, if not better, IMO.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > phenotyp
09/25/2013 at 21:42

there's heaps of ZZ's for sale in Australia, I've test driven a couple since writing off my SW20, they're enjoyable, but a little outside of my budget and not quite quick enough in a straight line, I can get two SW20 Turbo's for the same price

MountainCommand > 6cyl
09/25/2013 at 21:45

K swap would be genius. A quick youtube search shows less than 6 of them....

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > MountainCommand
09/25/2013 at 21:46

It's very underrated, even in the MR2 community. The MK1 people can't afford them and the MK2 people only care about power. I really like the Spyders, but I'd have to get a hardtop, which in the US means importing one since we never got that option, and the tops alone are around $4-5k all in by the time you factor in shipping, mounting hardware, and paint. That said, a 2100 midship runabout is way cooler than a Miata any day.

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > Milky
09/25/2013 at 21:47

The turbo also came with a smidge of AWD on the side.

MountainCommand > MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig
09/25/2013 at 21:52

Its a shame. Its not always about power. Only 95% of the time it is haha. but seriously, its sad this car doesnt get the recognition is deserves.

There are no stateside custom creations people with hardtop templates. I mean, i think a custom hardtop could be done for #3-4K?

Milky > MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig
09/25/2013 at 21:52

Oh I know baybey ...

Kinja'd!!!

Also .... I like your car.

phenotyp > MountainCommand
09/25/2013 at 21:55

The only problem I've ever had with mine, except for people driving into it, is a constantly-on CEL from a faulty relay in the evap return system (very expensive to fix and not worth it). My guess was that Toyota used it as a test bed for Corolla emissions equipment, and made the case for it that way. Lots of 2000-2001 MR2s lunched their engines because the precats disintegrated and trashed the heads. Mine's an 01, and thankfully hasn't done that, though it does burn a little oil. I really think the pre-facelift cars are better looking, though the 02s introduced the SMG, which got a sixth gear in 03.
A lot of people swapped in the celica motor, which is what I wish Toyota had just put in it in the first place. A 50 hp bump is pretty huge in a 2200 lb car.

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > MountainCommand
09/25/2013 at 21:55

I'm not sure about aftermarket stuff, I just know most people prefer the OEM hardtops from Europe/Japan

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > MountainCommand
09/25/2013 at 22:00

I love the looks and the engineering in the last gen MR2. My problem is that Toyota neutered it a bit. The only engine option here in the states (as far as I know) was the 140hp Corolla 1.8. To be even more of a slap in the face, a 180hp high cam version could be had in the Celica GT-S at the time, and later on with 170hp in the Corolla and Matric XRSs.

MountainCommand > MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig
09/25/2013 at 22:01

i do too, but if they are truly that hard to get, there is an untapped market in need of a product.

revrseat70 > MountainCommand
09/25/2013 at 22:03

Mazda did a turbo miata.... check "Mazdaspeed Miata"

YSI-what can brown do for you > MountainCommand
09/25/2013 at 22:04

Someone made one of theses into a ridiculous track day machine. It pretty much pooped on my face while I was autocrossing. . .

MountainCommand > phenotyp
09/25/2013 at 22:07

Im surprised the mr2 doesnt share more parts with the celica. And that they Sounds like exactly the same story with honda and the prelude using it pretty much as a test bed, then killing it off because they got everything they needed from it while making some cash on the side.

Also, is that when, in 03, the celica ended up getting a 6th gear too? Or was that just unrelated? Wait, the pre cats trashed teh heads? how so, isnt the precat downstram from the exhaust manifold? unless its a pre cat in the intake system.

Milky > phenotyp
09/25/2013 at 22:11

I like your car, that is all.

MountainCommand > YSI-what can brown do for you
09/25/2013 at 22:12

These cars have some serious potential, and the auto world is just giving it the 'nuuhhuhhhh talk to the hand''.

MountainCommand > revrseat70
09/25/2013 at 22:18

Check my other comment. I acknowledged that.

However, IMO the turbo wasnt the selling point of the miata.

phenotyp > MountainCommand
09/25/2013 at 22:18

Yeah, if it isn't bespoke, it's probably corolla, underneath. The precat thing was huge in the MR2 community, Toyota denied lots of claims, and people were super pissed. They didn't even acknowledge the issue for the first year or so. The precats are a ceramic honeycomb, which would disintegrate and the backpressure from the cat would blow the superfine ceramic dust back into the engine, where it would wreck all the seals in the engine. Usually the heads would be the first part to fail, far as I know.
I thought celicas had 6spds way earlier than 03, but I hated that gen celica, and don't know much about them.

phenotyp > Milky
09/25/2013 at 22:20

I do, too. Poor thing needs a bath real bad, and some buffing of the front bumper. SF has not been kind to the Bugster.

YSI-what can brown do for you > MountainCommand
09/25/2013 at 22:20

Give it a few years. When they are about 20 years old, people will wonder why we didn't love this car. As a kid I really wanted one. . . then again this was when I was playing NFS underground, and I wanted to rice the crap out of this.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > MountainCommand
09/25/2013 at 22:21

I think they're not particularly attractive, and not in a cool way, and the interior always struck me as something that was pulled out of a late 90s Taurus. Don't care for them in the least.

MountainCommand > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
09/25/2013 at 22:23

Its odd that they wouldnt put in a proper engine in this car. What were they scared of. Actually making a good amount of sales?

phenotyp > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney
09/25/2013 at 22:29

I agree with the interior, other than the excellent ergonomics, it's an ugly piece of shit. The exterior, though, I will argue is the most cohesive design of any 'normal' car of the last decade. Lines, especially with the hardtop and JDM nose badge, are incredibly continuous, logical, and right. The proportion is unbeatable. Stance, if left stock, leaves a little something to be desired, sure, and it only looks good in white, black or grey, but it's remarkable how tight it is. I'm pretty sure it was an after-hours project with one designer, one modeler, and one engineer, like the TT.

I could go on for a while about this.

MountainCommand > phenotyp
09/25/2013 at 22:29

Its not uncommon for a manufacturer to stay quiet on a design flaw, thats for sure. Especially when they wont admit or acknowledge it. thats the annoying bit.

And yes. i just checked, celicas in the gts model had the 6th gear in 2000+. but even then, it seems odd it wouldnt have been put into the MR2 since both the celica and mr2's production years are almost identical. 99-06/07

phenotyp > MountainCommand
09/25/2013 at 22:44

Pretty much everyone who does the engine swap does the gearbox swap, too, although the final drive ratio is the same between the 5 and 6, which still leaves you with a buzzy little bastard spinning at 3500+ behind your head on the freeway.
The R in MR2 stands for Runabout for a reason. MGT it ain't.

Reigntastic > MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig
09/25/2013 at 23:00

I wouldn't really call 200hp stock anything to write home about, but the 3SGTE is a very popular engine for engine modification. I wouldn't really say the MK2's are drag queens though, they're great handling cars as well.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > MountainCommand
09/25/2013 at 23:02

I have no idea. Even though it's mostly the same engine, I think because it was a low-volume seller, they were trying to cut costs any way that they could. But I agree. More performance would've meant a lot more popularity and sales. But bein that the Lotus deal was just heating up, they might have been scared to step on their partner's toes.

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > Reigntastic
09/25/2013 at 23:02

Oh absolutely. The 3S was no biggie stock, but it has tons of power potential. And the SW chassis is a great handling platform as well. In my experience though, that crowd becomes very elitist about that chassis and look down on the others like they are garbage. AW's have the best feel and are the best raw driver's car, SW's are the best overall performance and are the fastest, and the Spyders are by far the best handling.

phenotyp > 6cyl
09/25/2013 at 23:03

The K20 swap's been done a few times, more trouble than it's worth, from what I've read. You can get a lot of bang from the celica engine swap, a 40-50 hp bump is pretty significant in a car that's lighter than a Miata. If I were doing it, I'd start with full underbody bracing (done), careful (key word— the car's easy to fuck up, judging by the number I've seen ditched, and how mine, which is stock, can sometimes surprise and try to bite you) suspension and wheels, then power. With a full midship brace, the car feels like it could handle twice the power, easily.

phenotyp > beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard
09/25/2013 at 23:09

Sounds like a very different market than the US.

Reigntastic > MountainCommand
09/25/2013 at 23:10

There had been complaints of sharp handling on the previous generation. Solution: Neuter HP

phenotyp > 6cyl
09/25/2013 at 23:14

Bracing, really, is the most important part. People overlook it. There was a dude who made these awesome 10-point mount underbody braces. Think like three roadbike frames mounted under the car, best thing you could possibly do for it. Changed everything about it— tightened steering, so much less flex and twist, really made it feel solid. Completely transformed the car from a joke to something real.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > phenotyp
09/25/2013 at 23:27

I think it's influenced by Turbo restrictions for learner and provisional drivers.

I may have exaggerated a little, but for a decent ZZW30 they start at around 10k all the way up to $20k while turbo MR2's can be had for as low as $5k-$6k if you're willing to put a bit of TLC into them.

greenagain > MountainCommand
09/25/2013 at 23:28

I sold them when they first came out, and virtually no one cared.
They were fun to drive. The styling really was Boxster knockoff.
Most times when I see them as trade ins today they are pretty tired looking. The interior looks cheap .

A coworker of mine is building a supercharged turbocharged vvti engine for his.

phenotyp > beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard
09/25/2013 at 23:34

Wow, yeah. Totally different, then. Round here, everyone seems to hate the 3rd gen, and 2nd gens, if you can find one in decent condition, would be way more expensive. But, outside of the few who really like em, they're all held in pretty low regard.
For the record, I think they're wrong. I've driven a 2nd gen, and hated it. I've had my 3rd gen for 8 years now.

Reigntastic > MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig
09/25/2013 at 23:34

I'll be honest, I love the AW11, but I can't really stand the Spyders. I'm not a big fan of convertibles, and they're really the ugly duckling of the bunch. Couple that with an underwhelming engine and you have a recipe for flop.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > phenotyp
09/25/2013 at 23:51

yeah people still don't like the 3rd gen as much (or MR2's in general, I always got asked how my Salon was going), the 3rd gen is definitely seen as more of a "girls car" here. but being non-turbo teen girls are still allowed to drive them. Where the turbo-mr2's are restricted.

Cloud81918 > MountainCommand
09/26/2013 at 06:21

Lots of love shown. I like these cars as well, but that had their issues.

The engine was underpowered. While they said it was something like 140HP, it always felt weaker than that.

Precat issues. The manifold cat was prone to breaking up and high RPM running could suck ceramic back into the engine which over time can destroy it. Pre-cats could break up in 40K miles or so with hard use.

They are sprung very softly. Stand on the brakes the car stands on its nose. A suspension change is pretty much required.

Standarn load out was really spartan and few extras could be added. over the years they added some option to the spec sheet, but by that time they were to late.

MountainCommand > YSI-what can brown do for you
09/26/2013 at 12:35

OMG yes. NFSU was awesome. Might be why i still have the attraction towards these small underpowered japanese cars after all. I probably spent hours just putting on all the body kits on my cars. They had some pretty legit rice wings in there too.